Paolo Brenciaglia - Interview with Cathy Eaton July 26, 2016
Paolo Brencialia – Interview by Cathy Eaton
July 26, 2016
Note from Cathy:
Paolo and his two brothers were born in Italy. He spent many summers visiting his grandma (Eva Webb) in Pugwash. He and Sandy were married here. They had a reception in the Lobster Factory; they had an earlier wedding in Italy for their Italian friends and family. They moved to Eva Webb’s house and later moved to a farm on the Gulf Shore Road where they raised horses, miniature ponies, ducks, and cherished many dogs and cats. At one point they ran a B & B in Italy, and for a time ran Eva Webb’s house as a B & B. Paolo was a professional photographer (first in the US) and he had a studio in Pugwash. We are grateful for the many beautiful photographs he has taken of Thinkers Lodge and the area. He was married twice before and has three sons. Paolo served on the Pugwash Village Commission for several years. He played a leading role in commemorating the Margaret King School and building a memorial.
C: Tell me about your grandmother, Eva Ruth Webb (sister of Cyrus)
P: She had a huge heart, was very determined, and she had very little diplomacy. She called a spade a spade. She had kind of toughness if someone tried to take advantage of her.
P: One example is a family from Cleveland came after the conference to see the lodge. She saw them snooping and said, “can’t you read.” She had posted a sign saying No Trespassing. They had wanted to take a look at the lodge. They claimed they were friends of Cyrus Eaton, but they had no idea where he lived. She sent them packing.
P: Gramma always avoided the States ; she not like the States very much. One trip I wanted drive through the States. We left Pugwash early in the morning. Near the Buffalo customs, the custom guy asked if she had anything to declare. “Yes, my brother is Cyrus Eaton.” ‘Do you have anything to declare,’ he repeated. ‘I am not stopping in your damn country. I am just passing through,” was Gramma’s response. The custom man wanted to know if she had anything in the trunk. She told Paolo just to drive. I floored it and in my rear view mirror saw the custom man go to draw his gun, but then he just waved us through.
P: She taught me a lot. She was very practical. I spent the summer with Gramma when I was 14. She told me, “You are a nice young man, but you are spoiled rotten.” By the end of the summer, you will thank me. She worked me to the bone. I did just about everything she asked. I built the tennis courts across from the Lodge. She was a good cook, and she taught me how to cook. On rainy days when you couldn’t cut lawns, she taught me how to hook rugs. Then she taught me to darn my socks.” Gramma was straight-laced. She drank a sherry now and then and didn’t smoke.
C: Do you know what Cyrus and Eva’s four older siblings died of?
P: No, maybe the older kids died of Typhoid or Consumption.
C: Tell me about your Billie Webb.
P: My Aunt Billie (Dorothy) Webb, a spinster after a short marriage, lived with Eva Webb. She looked out for Gramma. She lived in apartment behind house above garage. Aunt Billie was the most friendly of all the aunts; she drank (maybe scotch) and smoked a lot; she was avant-garde and loose. She cooked, cleaned, and was a companion. She mingled well with guests. The delegates liked her a lot. She was friendly with the staff.
C: Can you describe Eva’s involvement with Pineo Lodge.
Gramma had someone run the B & B, and she supervised that person. Gramma opened the lodge, hired the workers who fixed it and painted in the spring. She was organized. She participated in lunches and dinners. She hired the staff for dining room and the lodge. She hired Lieb Blanche (who later helped take care of Elizabeth Eaton when she was a baby in Northfield, Ohio); she was a character. She lived in Amherst and originally was from Scotland. She never married and had no children. Lieb Blanche. Donnie Jamieson was in charge of the dining room, and Lieb Blanche took care of The Lodge.
C: How many children did Eva have?
P: My mother, Winifred, was the eldest, then Aunt Evelyn, then perhaps a son (Howe) who left for Australia and might have been on the Lithuania (a ship that sank). Some of his descendants visited from Australia so perhaps he missed the Lithuania and took a different ship.. The next child was Margaret (Monte) and then Cyrus (Sonny) who died in the WW II in Germany, and finally Billie (Dorothy). Gramma was married to Truman Webb,
C: What do you know about your grandfather.
P: When I first arrived, I asked, “What about my grandfather.” Gramma went stiff. “I suppose you entitled to know. But don’t ask too many questions. They moved from Pugwash to Edmunton in 1903. They were fine until the first World War. When he came back, he was shell-shocked and he became an alcoholic. Gramma said, “It’s the bottle or the family. Take your pick.” Gramma packed up the whole family and moved to Geneva.
P: That’s how she met her neighbor who was ambassador to League of Nations. He wrote to Mario Brenciaglia about this family of lovely girls. He told Mario that one
them is Rome studying Italian. That was Aunt Monty. The whole family went to visit her. They were having tea and some people were dancing. Mario arrived presented himself by clicking his heels and introducing himself. He was offered tea. “I don’t like tea,” he said, but I like to dance. He looked at all the daughters and pointed at Winnifred. “That is who I will dance with.” He picked Winnifred, but he had to come Pugwash several times to convince her to marry him. Gramma had moved back to Toronto and came to Pugwash in the summer 1932. The house in Pugwash was not winterized. She lived in Toronto house that Uncle Cyrus owned.
C: Tell me about your grandfather.
P: Mario Brenciaglia was a typical aristocrat. He was almost totally deaf. I had strong and high-pitched voice, so he could hear me. He wore a hearing aid. He often took me along and called me my little secretariat. He had determination. He knew what he wanted. First he was a criminal lawyer and then a civil lawyer. He was an agriculturalist. He grew olives and produced olive oil.
C: Why did you come to school in Canada.
Gianni (Giovanni) had finished high school and I had more year. Aunt Florence offered to send me to Oxford. But Johnny was accepted in second year at McGill. I decided he wanted to go to McGill with me, which meant I could skip last year of exams. Mother wrote to Uncle Cyrus to help get me enrolled at McGill University. Gigi (Luigi) came the next yea, but didn’t like it and returned to Italy. I was 16 and thought I would go to medicine. I couldn’t stand biology and zoology and chemistry. When it came time to dissect a frog, I hated chopping up a defenseless creature and couldn’t image doing that to humans. So I decided to major in math. Gianni majored in physics.
C: How were you involved in the conferences at Thinkers Lodge
P: The first conference I came to was 1956 for education education. Cyril James organized the first conference with presidents and deans of Canada and US university. I was 16. I didn’t get paid. I built the tennis court, cut the grass, served drinks and passed hors d'oeuvres. Mowing was the worst. I had to use a hand mower. During the conferences I mingled and filled up the drinks. “I just liked the discussions.” I was working til 10:30 at night, and I was in charge with closing the bar. However, sometimes, the secretaries needed to to finish the transcripts. They asked me to leave bar open a bit, so I did.
C: Tell me about some of the staff.
P: Donnie Jamieson hired about four waitresses. Raymond Bourque came up from Deep Cove. He was jack-of-all-trades. He was distinguished and very friendly and had been a politician. He served in the dining room as a butler. He was in charge of the two chefs from Canadian and National Railway. One with the mustache was named Morash with mustache and the other was ???? The food was excellent. Raymond at the end of the one of the conferences during the lobster feast asked Paolo if he liked lobster. Paolo broke the record for eating the most lobsters. He more than 15 lobsters. Raymond was chief PR person during meals and cocktail hours. He made all the guests and staff very comfortable. He had a great sense of humor and told lots of jokes. He knew everyone in the village. If anything was missing, he would make a few calls, and it would get returned.
C: What was Raymond’s relationship with Grampa?
P: There was great affinity between Uncle Cyrus and Raymond. Raymond thought Uncle Cyrus was very fair and very good to him. They were almost like family.
C: Tell me about Anne Eaton.
P: I thought Anne was great. She was super organized. She seemed to be liked by the delegates. She had a very good diplomatic approach to socializing. When she had something to criticize, she was funny and cutting. I helped her with the wheel chair and helped set up the croquet. She loved to play croquet.
P: Ray Szabo worked in the little office that is now where the Nobel Peace Prize and Lenin Peace Prize are. Marilyn and Barbara worked in the staff house and typed the transcriptions in the staff house. Ray Szabo was very prim and proper and a nice fellow and good secretary. People were impressed by personal things. Before he went out to greet people, Uncle Cyrus and Ray Szabo reviewed personal details about the guests, so Uncle Cyrus could be chatty and personal.
The two rooms (library and Ray Szabo’s office) were made into one room in the early 1970s.
Norm Comisky brought photographer up and secretary typist Marilyn and Barbara.
C: How did the conferences influence you or change you?
P: I became a lot more mature and a lot more independent. I used to be fairly quiet because I was shy. After meeting so many important people (and finding them so nice and human), I got over my shyness. I became more loquacious. I stopped being afraid of his father who ruled the roost.
One day I met one of the nuclear scientists who was in his late 70s (my age now.) I was hotshot tennis player. He asked me if wanted to play tennis. “He cleaned me: 6-4.” He kept using Paolo’s power to have great shots. He said, “You look tired. I have to tell you that I was on the Davis Cup team. Would you like to play again.” Paolo said, “yes, yes!” He had a super serve and perfect lobs.
Cecil Powell was very interesting. He was friendly and not standoffish. He was a super gentleman.
I talked to Joseph Rotblatt after the conferences. He was great, very friendly and accommodating.
My job was to make sure they were comfortable. I rang the bell in the great room to gather people ten minutes before the meal would be served in Lobster Factory.
C: What do you know about Pineo Lodge and when did you start calling this place Thinkers Lodge?
P: The history of the Pineo Lodge (built between 1815 and 1820 or 25) is very interesting. It was owned by Seaman who was a founder of Pugwash. There was lawsuit between Seaman and Pineo who won. Pineo owned the Lodge by 1850. He was well-known politician before the formation of Canada. He was connected with one of the first prime ministers, Tupper. Canada became a country in 1873. In 1860, Henry Jr. married a Seaman and they added to this lodge. Around 1890 a Clay family (who owned brick yard factory) took it over. In 1929 Uncle Cyrus bought it over and turned it into a B & B.
July 26, 2016
Note from Cathy:
Paolo and his two brothers were born in Italy. He spent many summers visiting his grandma (Eva Webb) in Pugwash. He and Sandy were married here. They had a reception in the Lobster Factory; they had an earlier wedding in Italy for their Italian friends and family. They moved to Eva Webb’s house and later moved to a farm on the Gulf Shore Road where they raised horses, miniature ponies, ducks, and cherished many dogs and cats. At one point they ran a B & B in Italy, and for a time ran Eva Webb’s house as a B & B. Paolo was a professional photographer (first in the US) and he had a studio in Pugwash. We are grateful for the many beautiful photographs he has taken of Thinkers Lodge and the area. He was married twice before and has three sons. Paolo served on the Pugwash Village Commission for several years. He played a leading role in commemorating the Margaret King School and building a memorial.
C: Tell me about your grandmother, Eva Ruth Webb (sister of Cyrus)
P: She had a huge heart, was very determined, and she had very little diplomacy. She called a spade a spade. She had kind of toughness if someone tried to take advantage of her.
P: One example is a family from Cleveland came after the conference to see the lodge. She saw them snooping and said, “can’t you read.” She had posted a sign saying No Trespassing. They had wanted to take a look at the lodge. They claimed they were friends of Cyrus Eaton, but they had no idea where he lived. She sent them packing.
P: Gramma always avoided the States ; she not like the States very much. One trip I wanted drive through the States. We left Pugwash early in the morning. Near the Buffalo customs, the custom guy asked if she had anything to declare. “Yes, my brother is Cyrus Eaton.” ‘Do you have anything to declare,’ he repeated. ‘I am not stopping in your damn country. I am just passing through,” was Gramma’s response. The custom man wanted to know if she had anything in the trunk. She told Paolo just to drive. I floored it and in my rear view mirror saw the custom man go to draw his gun, but then he just waved us through.
P: She taught me a lot. She was very practical. I spent the summer with Gramma when I was 14. She told me, “You are a nice young man, but you are spoiled rotten.” By the end of the summer, you will thank me. She worked me to the bone. I did just about everything she asked. I built the tennis courts across from the Lodge. She was a good cook, and she taught me how to cook. On rainy days when you couldn’t cut lawns, she taught me how to hook rugs. Then she taught me to darn my socks.” Gramma was straight-laced. She drank a sherry now and then and didn’t smoke.
C: Do you know what Cyrus and Eva’s four older siblings died of?
P: No, maybe the older kids died of Typhoid or Consumption.
C: Tell me about your Billie Webb.
P: My Aunt Billie (Dorothy) Webb, a spinster after a short marriage, lived with Eva Webb. She looked out for Gramma. She lived in apartment behind house above garage. Aunt Billie was the most friendly of all the aunts; she drank (maybe scotch) and smoked a lot; she was avant-garde and loose. She cooked, cleaned, and was a companion. She mingled well with guests. The delegates liked her a lot. She was friendly with the staff.
C: Can you describe Eva’s involvement with Pineo Lodge.
Gramma had someone run the B & B, and she supervised that person. Gramma opened the lodge, hired the workers who fixed it and painted in the spring. She was organized. She participated in lunches and dinners. She hired the staff for dining room and the lodge. She hired Lieb Blanche (who later helped take care of Elizabeth Eaton when she was a baby in Northfield, Ohio); she was a character. She lived in Amherst and originally was from Scotland. She never married and had no children. Lieb Blanche. Donnie Jamieson was in charge of the dining room, and Lieb Blanche took care of The Lodge.
C: How many children did Eva have?
P: My mother, Winifred, was the eldest, then Aunt Evelyn, then perhaps a son (Howe) who left for Australia and might have been on the Lithuania (a ship that sank). Some of his descendants visited from Australia so perhaps he missed the Lithuania and took a different ship.. The next child was Margaret (Monte) and then Cyrus (Sonny) who died in the WW II in Germany, and finally Billie (Dorothy). Gramma was married to Truman Webb,
C: What do you know about your grandfather.
P: When I first arrived, I asked, “What about my grandfather.” Gramma went stiff. “I suppose you entitled to know. But don’t ask too many questions. They moved from Pugwash to Edmunton in 1903. They were fine until the first World War. When he came back, he was shell-shocked and he became an alcoholic. Gramma said, “It’s the bottle or the family. Take your pick.” Gramma packed up the whole family and moved to Geneva.
P: That’s how she met her neighbor who was ambassador to League of Nations. He wrote to Mario Brenciaglia about this family of lovely girls. He told Mario that one
them is Rome studying Italian. That was Aunt Monty. The whole family went to visit her. They were having tea and some people were dancing. Mario arrived presented himself by clicking his heels and introducing himself. He was offered tea. “I don’t like tea,” he said, but I like to dance. He looked at all the daughters and pointed at Winnifred. “That is who I will dance with.” He picked Winnifred, but he had to come Pugwash several times to convince her to marry him. Gramma had moved back to Toronto and came to Pugwash in the summer 1932. The house in Pugwash was not winterized. She lived in Toronto house that Uncle Cyrus owned.
C: Tell me about your grandfather.
P: Mario Brenciaglia was a typical aristocrat. He was almost totally deaf. I had strong and high-pitched voice, so he could hear me. He wore a hearing aid. He often took me along and called me my little secretariat. He had determination. He knew what he wanted. First he was a criminal lawyer and then a civil lawyer. He was an agriculturalist. He grew olives and produced olive oil.
C: Why did you come to school in Canada.
Gianni (Giovanni) had finished high school and I had more year. Aunt Florence offered to send me to Oxford. But Johnny was accepted in second year at McGill. I decided he wanted to go to McGill with me, which meant I could skip last year of exams. Mother wrote to Uncle Cyrus to help get me enrolled at McGill University. Gigi (Luigi) came the next yea, but didn’t like it and returned to Italy. I was 16 and thought I would go to medicine. I couldn’t stand biology and zoology and chemistry. When it came time to dissect a frog, I hated chopping up a defenseless creature and couldn’t image doing that to humans. So I decided to major in math. Gianni majored in physics.
C: How were you involved in the conferences at Thinkers Lodge
P: The first conference I came to was 1956 for education education. Cyril James organized the first conference with presidents and deans of Canada and US university. I was 16. I didn’t get paid. I built the tennis court, cut the grass, served drinks and passed hors d'oeuvres. Mowing was the worst. I had to use a hand mower. During the conferences I mingled and filled up the drinks. “I just liked the discussions.” I was working til 10:30 at night, and I was in charge with closing the bar. However, sometimes, the secretaries needed to to finish the transcripts. They asked me to leave bar open a bit, so I did.
C: Tell me about some of the staff.
P: Donnie Jamieson hired about four waitresses. Raymond Bourque came up from Deep Cove. He was jack-of-all-trades. He was distinguished and very friendly and had been a politician. He served in the dining room as a butler. He was in charge of the two chefs from Canadian and National Railway. One with the mustache was named Morash with mustache and the other was ???? The food was excellent. Raymond at the end of the one of the conferences during the lobster feast asked Paolo if he liked lobster. Paolo broke the record for eating the most lobsters. He more than 15 lobsters. Raymond was chief PR person during meals and cocktail hours. He made all the guests and staff very comfortable. He had a great sense of humor and told lots of jokes. He knew everyone in the village. If anything was missing, he would make a few calls, and it would get returned.
C: What was Raymond’s relationship with Grampa?
P: There was great affinity between Uncle Cyrus and Raymond. Raymond thought Uncle Cyrus was very fair and very good to him. They were almost like family.
C: Tell me about Anne Eaton.
P: I thought Anne was great. She was super organized. She seemed to be liked by the delegates. She had a very good diplomatic approach to socializing. When she had something to criticize, she was funny and cutting. I helped her with the wheel chair and helped set up the croquet. She loved to play croquet.
P: Ray Szabo worked in the little office that is now where the Nobel Peace Prize and Lenin Peace Prize are. Marilyn and Barbara worked in the staff house and typed the transcriptions in the staff house. Ray Szabo was very prim and proper and a nice fellow and good secretary. People were impressed by personal things. Before he went out to greet people, Uncle Cyrus and Ray Szabo reviewed personal details about the guests, so Uncle Cyrus could be chatty and personal.
The two rooms (library and Ray Szabo’s office) were made into one room in the early 1970s.
Norm Comisky brought photographer up and secretary typist Marilyn and Barbara.
C: How did the conferences influence you or change you?
P: I became a lot more mature and a lot more independent. I used to be fairly quiet because I was shy. After meeting so many important people (and finding them so nice and human), I got over my shyness. I became more loquacious. I stopped being afraid of his father who ruled the roost.
One day I met one of the nuclear scientists who was in his late 70s (my age now.) I was hotshot tennis player. He asked me if wanted to play tennis. “He cleaned me: 6-4.” He kept using Paolo’s power to have great shots. He said, “You look tired. I have to tell you that I was on the Davis Cup team. Would you like to play again.” Paolo said, “yes, yes!” He had a super serve and perfect lobs.
Cecil Powell was very interesting. He was friendly and not standoffish. He was a super gentleman.
I talked to Joseph Rotblatt after the conferences. He was great, very friendly and accommodating.
My job was to make sure they were comfortable. I rang the bell in the great room to gather people ten minutes before the meal would be served in Lobster Factory.
C: What do you know about Pineo Lodge and when did you start calling this place Thinkers Lodge?
P: The history of the Pineo Lodge (built between 1815 and 1820 or 25) is very interesting. It was owned by Seaman who was a founder of Pugwash. There was lawsuit between Seaman and Pineo who won. Pineo owned the Lodge by 1850. He was well-known politician before the formation of Canada. He was connected with one of the first prime ministers, Tupper. Canada became a country in 1873. In 1860, Henry Jr. married a Seaman and they added to this lodge. Around 1890 a Clay family (who owned brick yard factory) took it over. In 1929 Uncle Cyrus bought it over and turned it into a B & B.